• Registered: 05.03.2007г.
  • Posts: 672

Re: To be or not ....to be

lilia wrote:
Dalai_tatar wrote:

"I cannot understand, for example,  why the fact that the same word can be used as a noun, adjective, and a verb is viewed as a mark of primitivity. I could say, on the contrary, that it is a mark of economy and plasticity."


WOW! Come on! It was popular only in the original, first Indo-European languages, in Asia Minor...Mark od economy? LOL!...Not at all! Just mark of undeveloping language!...

Please, try to explain WHY do you thing so, it is far from obvious.

I already told you. It is UNDEVELOPED language. Sounds like some 2-3 years old Bulgarian person. Let me illustrate it very OBVIOUS:

1) I water the flowers.

  "Аз вода цветята." (Аз поливам цветята.)

2) I drink, you drink, we drink...

"Аз пие, ти пие, ние пие..." (Аз пия, ти пиеш, ние пием...)

3) He-wolf, She-wolf

"Той-вълк, Тя-вълк" (Вълк, Вълчица)



   Primitivism!...

"Главите на някои видове животни стоят забити и душещи към земята." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ВАЛЕНТИНО

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  • Registered: 05.03.2007г.
  • Posts: 672

Re: To be or not ....to be

lilia wrote:
Dalai_tatar wrote:

but,... for sure, she is a big fan of the English language and her online-behaviour looks like some kind of fanatism...
.

?!?!?! Please, read what I wrote in #28.

I only claim that English is a normal language, neither superior nor inferior to the rest of the spoken languages in the civilized world. I cannot see anything fanatic in this position. To argue that "English is a primitive language" without serious arguments looks quite more fanatic :-))

By the way, I was not the person who suggested to initiate a forum in English in Projectoria, neither I was the person who started these discussions in English.
My personal opinion is that it is a bit strange to talk here in English, if all of us are native Bulgarians :-).

GOOD NIGHT!

My arguments are very good, but you do not like to accept it. Your rejection is not logical, but emotional. It is the type : "So what?!"...Not working.

The initiation of the forum in English, in Projectoria is useful, because Google ads can bring some more profits here. Also it can attract some foreign philosophers, due to Google, Yahoo, Baidu, etc. search machines.

"Главите на някои видове животни стоят забити и душещи към земята." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ВАЛЕНТИНО

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  • lilia
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  • Registered: 01.03.2005г.
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Re: To be or not ....to be

To call  "primitive" anything that is different from what you have adjusted to is not clever at all.
If we decide to follow this line, the natives of any language will have reasons to proclaim all other languages "primitive". For example, we Bulgarians could say that Russian is primitive because in this language there is only one past tense form. Russians, on their own part, may say that Bulgarian and Dutch are primitive languages besause they lack cases (падежи) and so on. And all this would not be serious, of course.

It's easy to lose touch with Reality when you see so little of it.
  • Registered: 05.03.2007г.
  • Posts: 672

Re: To be or not ....to be

"To call  "primitive" anything that is different from what you have adjusted to is not clever at all."

Yes. But I am calling it primitive, not because it is different, but because it is primitive. And I gave good examples.



"If we decide to follow this line, the natives of any language will have reasons to proclaim all other languages "primitive"."

  Not everyone. Only these who are using one and the same words as noun, verb, adjective+have no genders, etc.


"For example, we Bulgarians could say that Russian is primitive because in this language there is only one past tense form. Russians, on their own part, may say that Bulgarian and Dutch are primitive languages besause they lack cases (падежи) and so on."


   Bulgarian lack cases (падежи)?! There are 3 cases in the Bulgarian.

"Главите на някои видове животни стоят забити и душещи към земята." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ВАЛЕНТИНО

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  • lilia
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  • Registered: 01.03.2005г.
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Re: To be or not ....to be

Dalai_tatar wrote:

"If we decide to follow this line, the natives of any language will have reasons to proclaim all other languages "primitive"."

  Not everyone. Only these who are using one and the same words as noun, verb, adjective+have no genders, etc.

OK, I think we are repeating what we have already mentioned.

This is the last time I ask for a direct answer of the question: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT USING (SOMETIMES)THE SAME WORDS AS NOUNS, ADJECTIVES AND VERBS SHOULD BE REGARDED AS A SIGN OF PRIMITIVISM?

The examples are not answers of this question, they just illustrate the fact that the same words are used as nouns, adjectives and so on.

This fact could be a sign of primitivism if it created ambiguities. But it does not (if, of course, the speaker is good enough in English).

And I think a second question could help you to re-estimate your position: if English were indeed as primitive as you think it is, how could you explain the fact that over 90% of contemporary scientific texts are originally written in English? How is it possible for a "primitive" language to serve as the official language of advanced scientific communication?

It's easy to lose touch with Reality when you see so little of it.
  • Registered: 05.03.2007г.
  • Posts: 672

Re: To be or not ....to be

lilia wrote:
Dalai_tatar wrote:

"If we decide to follow this line, the natives of any language will have reasons to proclaim all other languages "primitive"."

  Not everyone. Only these who are using one and the same words as noun, verb, adjective+have no genders, etc.

OK, I think we are repeating what we have already mentioned.

This is the last time I ask for a direct answer of the question: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT USING (SOMETIMES)THE SAME WORDS AS NOUNS, ADJECTIVES AND VERBS SHOULD BE REGARDED AS A SIGN OF PRIMITIVISM?

The examples are not answers of this question, they just illustrate the fact that the same words are used as nouns, adjectives and so on.

This fact could be a sign of primitivism if it created ambiguities. But it does not (if, of course, the speaker is good enough in English).

And I think a second question could help you to re-estimate your position: if English were indeed as primitive as you think it is, how could you explain the fact that over 90% of contemporary scientific texts are originally written in English? How is it possible for a "primitive" language to serve as the official language of advanced scientific communication?

Yes, you got it!!!!!!!!!!! Primitive = EASY-TO-LEARN!!! The same as "0 and 1"...

Do you know which languages in the Indo-European family used one and the same words for everything? Only the most ancient and primitive ones in Asia Minor.  English is a primitive and undeveloped in many aspects. But I do agree with you about it is okay for scientific communications, because of his:

-Greek
-Latin
-French and other FOREIGN words.

In the same time Chinese which is much more primitive even than English (as far as in Chinese there is even no PLURAL, for example : 许多树 (Сю-дуо шу ) means in Bulgarian "Много дърво", ...something like Едно дърво, две дърво, три дърво...or един кон, две кон, три кон)..., but, AT LEAST, there is high-level of purism. I mean for example in Chinese, USING NATIVE CHINESE WORDS you're able to translate Kant in a very clear way. My ex-wife readed a Kant's book in Chinese. In the same time the English translation of Kant's works is full of FOREIGN words...

"Главите на някои видове животни стоят забити и душещи към земята." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ВАЛЕНТИНО

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  • lilia
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Re: To be or not ....to be

Dalai_tatar wrote:

the English translation of Kant's works is full of FOREIGN words...

:-) But the original (German) version of Kant's works (Especially the "Critique of Pure Reason") is full of Foreign (to German) words, too.
Remember, one of the things, which Hegel blaimed Kant for is "his BARBARIAN language" :-))).

It's easy to lose touch with Reality when you see so little of it.
  • Registered: 05.03.2007г.
  • Posts: 672

Re: To be or not ....to be

lilia wrote:
Dalai_tatar wrote:

the English translation of Kant's works is full of FOREIGN words...

:-) But the original (German) version of Kant's works (Especially the "Critique of Pure Reason") is full of Foreign (to German) words, too.
Remember, one of the things, which Hegel blaimed Kant for is "his BARBARIAN language" :-))).

Yes. I agree. German is also a language without strong purism. I think it is an advantage if the people are ABLE and WANT TO create OWN words like "драсни-пални клечица"...May be for someone it is funny, but who cares?...Englishmen, Bulgarians, etc. are using the GREEK word "telephone". It means "LONG VOICE" as I know. But the Chinese purism made the word “电话“(Диен хуа).It means ELECTRIC SPEECH and it's 100% Chinese. That's why I think the purism is reflecting the ability of own thinking, which is progressive.

"Главите на някои видове животни стоят забити и душещи към земята." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ВАЛЕНТИНО

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  • arture
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  • Registered: 12.12.2006г.
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Re: To be or not ....to be

It was just a joke to say that English is not for doing philosophy. Based on a poetry we can not judge on philosophy.

  • arture
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  • Registered: 12.12.2006г.
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Re: To be or not ....to be

Thinking does not depend on a language at all, does it?

  • Registered: 28.04.2005г.
  • Posts: 68

Re: To be or not ....to be

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Last edited by Methodius (30.05.2010г. 21:20:28)